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	<title>Comments on: Let’s Talk Editing</title>
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	<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/</link>
	<description>A reader review blog { of genre fiction }</description>
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		<title>By: Avid Reader</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-740</link>
		<dc:creator>Avid Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-740</guid>
		<description>I look forward to your review, Jane, on Angel&#039;s Fall. I&#039;ve been noticing some mixed reviews out there and as I&#039;ve not read her in a long time, it might be a good time to read this one. Especially since you said it was very good.

If the style these days are to violate basic sentence structure then I&#039;d have to give it a pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look forward to your review, Jane, on Angel’s Fall. I’ve been noticing some mixed reviews out there and as I’ve not read her in a long time, it might be a good time to read this one. Especially since you said it was very good.</p>
<p>If the style these days are to violate basic sentence structure then I’d have to give it a pass.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-739</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-739</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t start counting until half way through the book.  I am not a grammatical guru and so sometimes I think that I am just not seeing things right, but it wasn&#039;t right.

I counted at least 10 places where a quotation mark was missing.  But the most egregious error was in the sentence structure.  I dont know if it was intentional or not.  I am going to review the book this weekend and will post a couple of examples.  Maybe NR is going for something stylistically.  It was  avery good book, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn’t start counting until half way through the book.  I am not a grammatical guru and so sometimes I think that I am just not seeing things right, but it wasn’t right.</p>
<p>I counted at least 10 places where a quotation mark was missing.  But the most egregious error was in the sentence structure.  I dont know if it was intentional or not.  I am going to review the book this weekend and will post a couple of examples.  Maybe NR is going for something stylistically.  It was  avery good book, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-738</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-738</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I just finished Angels Fall by Nora roberts and had the same sentiments that you had CindyS. No punctuation? Missing quote marks. No periods. It was bizarre. I couldn’t believe that it was a NR book. I would think that she, of all people, would get the copy editing gurus.&lt;/i&gt;

Except for the latest In Death hardcover, as soon as that series went to hardback (and to Putnam), the copy editing took an enormous nosedive.  There have always been some consistency problems across the books in other ways, but everything just got compounded once those hardcovers started rolling out (plus from book to book the paragraph and sentence structure seemed to change, too, which was really weird and jarring).  I&#039;ve also noticed some decent copy editing mistakes in Berkley paperbacks, but not nearly as bad as the Putnam hardbacks (although maybe they were there and I didn&#039;t notice until the series hit hardback).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I just finished Angels Fall by Nora roberts and had the same sentiments that you had CindyS. No punctuation? Missing quote marks. No periods. It was bizarre. I couldn’t believe that it was a NR book. I would think that she, of all people, would get the copy editing gurus.</i></p>
<p>Except for the latest In Death hardcover, as soon as that series went to hardback (and to Putnam), the copy editing took an enormous nosedive.  There have always been some consistency problems across the books in other ways, but everything just got compounded once those hardcovers started rolling out (plus from book to book the paragraph and sentence structure seemed to change, too, which was really weird and jarring).  I’ve also noticed some decent copy editing mistakes in Berkley paperbacks, but not nearly as bad as the Putnam hardbacks (although maybe they were there and I didn’t notice until the series hit hardback).</p>
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		<title>By: Avid Reader</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-737</link>
		<dc:creator>Avid Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-737</guid>
		<description>My sentiments EXACTLY CindyS. I am a reader who rarely notices anything out of place...but if I notice it, many would too.

Jane, you&#039;ve got to be kidding me. Nora had these problems? Maybe no one edits her stuff anymore? Ann Rice got it like that. No one edits her stuff and what a shame, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My sentiments EXACTLY CindyS. I am a reader who rarely notices anything out of place…but if I notice it, many would too.</p>
<p>Jane, you’ve got to be kidding me. Nora had these problems? Maybe no one edits her stuff anymore? Ann Rice got it like that. No one edits her stuff and what a shame, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-736</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-736</guid>
		<description>I just finished Angels Fall by Nora roberts and had the same sentiments that you had CindyS.  No punctuation?  Missing quote marks.  No periods.  It was bizarre.  I couldn&#039;t believe that it was a NR book. I would think that she, of all people, would get the copy editing gurus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just finished Angels Fall by Nora roberts and had the same sentiments that you had CindyS.  No punctuation?  Missing quote marks.  No periods.  It was bizarre.  I couldn’t believe that it was a NR book. I would think that she, of all people, would get the copy editing gurus.</p>
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		<title>By: CindyS</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-735</link>
		<dc:creator>CindyS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-735</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s just say that if *I* notice the editing, then the whole world will too.  I hate not knowing dangling participles and stuff but sentences with no punctuation?  That&#039;d just piss me off.

I haven&#039;t ventured into e-books (be gentle) for too many reasons to count but editing has come up too often for it not to be a real issue.

CindyS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let’s just say that if *I* notice the editing, then the whole world will too.  I hate not knowing dangling participles and stuff but sentences with no punctuation?  That’d just piss me off.</p>
<p>I haven’t ventured into e-books (be gentle) for too many reasons to count but editing has come up too often for it not to be a real issue.</p>
<p>CindyS</p>
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		<title>By: sybil</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-734</link>
		<dc:creator>sybil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-734</guid>
		<description>hee  :) It is a great problem to have.  I will read all the unedited ARC&#039;s people want to send me.  Cuz I rock like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hee  <img src='http://avidbookreader.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  It is a great problem to have.  I will read all the unedited ARC’s people want to send me.  Cuz I rock like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Avid Reader</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-733</link>
		<dc:creator>Avid Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 23:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-733</guid>
		<description>Well, hell, wish I could have ARC&#039;s to read too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, hell, wish I could have ARC’s to read too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer B</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-732</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-732</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m right with you on this point Keishon. I prefer a well-written book period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m right with you on this point Keishon. I prefer a well-written book period.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-731</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-731</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I have read the word “inexorable” too many times when it comes to the sword sliding home, IYKWM.&lt;/i&gt;

What is UP with that word?  I have literally come to despise it because I see it so many times in Romance, and often used incorrectly, to boot.  It&#039;s so bad that I will not use it in anything I write, for any purpose.

As for the general editing issue, I have a rather notorious position on this one, but since you brought the topic up again, Keishon, I&#039;ll slip this in:  the media of Romance is &lt;b&gt;language&lt;/b&gt;, as in words, sentences, paragraphs, etc.  No writer or editor is perfect and mistakes will be made.  I love that there are writers who openly thank their editors, because I think that getting the best book possible to publication IS a collaborative process.  And I agree with the people who say that the less engaged you are with a book, the more you will notice editorial problems.  Because for me, all roads lead back to the fact that writing is an art and a skill and its techniques and rules exist primarily to help the writer make his or her point in the clearest, most engaging, and most effective way, so that there is as little distance as possible between the words and the reader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I have read the word “inexorable” too many times when it comes to the sword sliding home, IYKWM.</i></p>
<p>What is UP with that word?  I have literally come to despise it because I see it so many times in Romance, and often used incorrectly, to boot.  It’s so bad that I will not use it in anything I write, for any purpose.</p>
<p>As for the general editing issue, I have a rather notorious position on this one, but since you brought the topic up again, Keishon, I’ll slip this in:  the media of Romance is <b>language</b>, as in words, sentences, paragraphs, etc.  No writer or editor is perfect and mistakes will be made.  I love that there are writers who openly thank their editors, because I think that getting the best book possible to publication IS a collaborative process.  And I agree with the people who say that the less engaged you are with a book, the more you will notice editorial problems.  Because for me, all roads lead back to the fact that writing is an art and a skill and its techniques and rules exist primarily to help the writer make his or her point in the clearest, most engaging, and most effective way, so that there is as little distance as possible between the words and the reader.</p>
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		<title>By: May</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>May</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-730</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think you&#039;re being nit-picky.

Errors JUMP OUT at me, and even more so when I&#039;m not into the book. 

And repetitive words annoy me. I notice it especially when I&#039;m glomming an author.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t think you’re being nit-picky.</p>
<p>Errors JUMP OUT at me, and even more so when I’m not into the book. </p>
<p>And repetitive words annoy me. I notice it especially when I’m glomming an author.</p>
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		<title>By: sybil</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-729</link>
		<dc:creator>sybil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-729</guid>
		<description>I read too many ARC&#039;s to get worked up about editing but repetitive words drive me batty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read too many ARC’s to get worked up about editing but repetitive words drive me batty.</p>
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		<title>By: Avid Reader</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-728</link>
		<dc:creator>Avid Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-728</guid>
		<description>Hey, don&#039;t look at me as the grammatical queen - I don&#039;t notice most mistakes like dangling participles and the like but I think you guys would notice the ones I mentioned as examples and repetitive word usage drives me crazy, too. I had recently read a book that used &quot;crotch clutching&quot; too many times to count. I remember reading a couple of LKH books where she used the same description of a love scene--word for word--in two books. Probably still does since she&#039;s upped it to erotica these days...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, don’t look at me as the grammatical queen — I don’t notice most mistakes like dangling participles and the like but I think you guys would notice the ones I mentioned as examples and repetitive word usage drives me crazy, too. I had recently read a book that used “crotch clutching” too many times to count. I remember reading a couple of LKH books where she used the same description of a love scene–word for word–in two books. Probably still does since she’s upped it to erotica these days…</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-727</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-727</guid>
		<description>Unless the errors are glaring, i really don&#039;t mind.  Like Dancechica, though, repetitive phrases are very irritating, particularly when they are strong visuals i.e., the one lone tear used more than once is highly jarring.

I have read the word &quot;inexorable&quot; too many times when it comes to the sword sliding home, IYKWM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless the errors are glaring, i really don’t mind.  Like Dancechica, though, repetitive phrases are very irritating, particularly when they are strong visuals i.e., the one lone tear used more than once is highly jarring.</p>
<p>I have read the word “inexorable” too many times when it comes to the sword sliding home, IYKWM.</p>
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		<title>By: Dancechica</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-726</link>
		<dc:creator>Dancechica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-726</guid>
		<description>See, I&#039;m like Dana.  I tend not to notice grammatical mistakes and I&#039;m glad I don&#039;t because it seems to really drive crazy the people who do.  Lately, however, I&#039;ve begun to notice repetitive word usage.  Like if an author keeps using one word repeatedly.  That starts to grate on my nerves after a while but other mistakes I usually don&#039;t notice or it doesn&#039;t bother me if/when I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I’m like Dana.  I tend not to notice grammatical mistakes and I’m glad I don’t because it seems to really drive crazy the people who do.  Lately, however, I’ve begun to notice repetitive word usage.  Like if an author keeps using one word repeatedly.  That starts to grate on my nerves after a while but other mistakes I usually don’t notice or it doesn’t bother me if/when I do.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-725</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-725</guid>
		<description>I do think editing is very important. However, I don’t tend to notice a lot of grammatical mistakes even in books I’ve seen other reviewers complain about. My brain isn’t wired that way. What drives me nuts is typography and printing mistakes. My friend once let me borrow a book that had double spacing after each period. I couldn’t get past the second page because all I could see was the gaps in the text. Insufficient margins is another thing that gets on my nerves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think editing is very important. However, I don’t tend to notice a lot of grammatical mistakes even in books I’ve seen other reviewers complain about. My brain isn’t wired that way. What drives me nuts is typography and printing mistakes. My friend once let me borrow a book that had double spacing after each period. I couldn’t get past the second page because all I could see was the gaps in the text. Insufficient margins is another thing that gets on my nerves.</p>
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		<title>By: Avid Reader</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-724</link>
		<dc:creator>Avid Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-724</guid>
		<description>No not at all and thank you for sharing your opinion, Dee. I&#039;ve read my share of books that have errors of all types but when it becomes excessive - it&#039;s a problem but again, some authors have talent enough write above those errors to where the enjoyment of the story isn&#039;t lost completely. No work printed or otherwise is perfect and we can&#039;t catch everything but at least make an effort and sometimes I don&#039;t see the effort in some of the work out there, ya know ;-) Readers have been rumbling grammatical erros and it seems to be getting worse and not better these days...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No not at all and thank you for sharing your opinion, Dee. I’ve read my share of books that have errors of all types but when it becomes excessive — it’s a problem but again, some authors have talent enough write above those errors to where the enjoyment of the story isn’t lost completely. No work printed or otherwise is perfect and we can’t catch everything but at least make an effort and sometimes I don’t see the effort in some of the work out there, ya know <img src='http://avidbookreader.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Readers have been rumbling grammatical erros and it seems to be getting worse and not better these days…</p>
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		<title>By: Dee</title>
		<link>http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-723</link>
		<dc:creator>Dee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avidbookreader.com/2006/07/11/lets-talk-editing/#comment-723</guid>
		<description>Keishon--I might write, but I&#039;m a reader first. I know the whole question of &quot;Reader Rights&quot; has been all over the blogsphere of late, but I&#039;m actually really surprised that we question them at all.

When I buy a product, be it a book or a toilet bowl cleaner, I&#039;m entitled to say, &quot;If it doesn&#039;t work for me, I&#039;m not buying more.&quot; And, of course, I&#039;m allowed to explain why. (As a writer though, I must add how it&#039;s easier to swallow if a person can actually explain why or what they didn&#039;t like.) Proctor &amp; Gamble do not get to sue me for not liking their cleaning products and stating why as long as I&#039;m not lying. Every penny I spend on something other than feeding and housing my son is precious and I&#039;d rather know I&#039;m spending it on something worthy of the sacrifice. 

So, to answer the lesser question, if you feel there is a poor editing job going on, sure, that&#039;s a more than valid reason to be disenchanted with a book. And if you notice the trend coming from a specific publisher, there shouldn&#039;t be anyone out there stopping you from saying so. 

Though, lol, it&#039;s not likely the pub will thank you.

As a writer, I admit, grammar is not my strength. I rely on my editor (lol, possibly a bit too heavily) to help me see where I missed something. She&#039;s only human, of course, and she&#039;s going to allow me to misuse the English language a bit if it&#039;s the best for the story. BUT--big but there--she&#039;s not going to let me ignore the basic requirements. Such as periods. And quotations. And you know, linear references. That&#039;s what makes her an excellent editor.

I think the fluff up is really because authors like to fancy themselves as &quot;artists&quot;, never realizing there&#039;s two types of art out there--Fine Art and Graphic Design. One is to please the artist, the second is to please the audience. You must still have a level of talent to do either, but the latter means you write FOR someone else and you earn from it. You put it out for public consumption and grant Reader Rights by doing so. A fine artist has the right to thumb his nose at detractors because they have not paid for the privilege. (He also enjoys the right to starve to death or earn his living elsewhere and enjoy his inner peace, owing nothing to no one. But that&#039;s neither here nor there.)

Any graphic artist--or editor--worth their salt is going to tell you that in order for a product to be complete, it must pass muster, be those artisitic guidelines or basic grammatical tests, and that they do their best to keep these errors from happening. But if you see a gross number of errors, something needs to be said. Otherwise, how is something going to get done? Anything excessive is a failure somewhere and readers--and writers--have a right to know.

Hope that wasn&#039;t too much of an opinion,
Dee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keishon–I might write, but I’m a reader first. I know the whole question of “Reader Rights” has been all over the blogsphere of late, but I’m actually really surprised that we question them at all.</p>
<p>When I buy a product, be it a book or a toilet bowl cleaner, I’m entitled to say, “If it doesn’t work for me, I’m not buying more.” And, of course, I’m allowed to explain why. (As a writer though, I must add how it’s easier to swallow if a person can actually explain why or what they didn’t like.) Proctor &amp; Gamble do not get to sue me for not liking their cleaning products and stating why as long as I’m not lying. Every penny I spend on something other than feeding and housing my son is precious and I’d rather know I’m spending it on something worthy of the sacrifice. </p>
<p>So, to answer the lesser question, if you feel there is a poor editing job going on, sure, that’s a more than valid reason to be disenchanted with a book. And if you notice the trend coming from a specific publisher, there shouldn’t be anyone out there stopping you from saying so. </p>
<p>Though, lol, it’s not likely the pub will thank you.</p>
<p>As a writer, I admit, grammar is not my strength. I rely on my editor (lol, possibly a bit too heavily) to help me see where I missed something. She’s only human, of course, and she’s going to allow me to misuse the English language a bit if it’s the best for the story. BUT–big but there–she’s not going to let me ignore the basic requirements. Such as periods. And quotations. And you know, linear references. That’s what makes her an excellent editor.</p>
<p>I think the fluff up is really because authors like to fancy themselves as “artists”, never realizing there’s two types of art out there–Fine Art and Graphic Design. One is to please the artist, the second is to please the audience. You must still have a level of talent to do either, but the latter means you write FOR someone else and you earn from it. You put it out for public consumption and grant Reader Rights by doing so. A fine artist has the right to thumb his nose at detractors because they have not paid for the privilege. (He also enjoys the right to starve to death or earn his living elsewhere and enjoy his inner peace, owing nothing to no one. But that’s neither here nor there.)</p>
<p>Any graphic artist–or editor–worth their salt is going to tell you that in order for a product to be complete, it must pass muster, be those artisitic guidelines or basic grammatical tests, and that they do their best to keep these errors from happening. But if you see a gross number of errors, something needs to be said. Otherwise, how is something going to get done? Anything excessive is a failure somewhere and readers–and writers–have a right to know.</p>
<p>Hope that wasn’t too much of an opinion,<br />
Dee</p>
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